Home » Archives » KoreanStudies » Afanasii Ivanovich Seridin-Sabatin
| Afanasii Ivanovich Seridin-Sabatin [message #10715] |
Fri, 19 February 2010 13:59  |
George Dorian
Messages: 7
Registered: February 2010
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Junior Member |
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Hello,
I am researching my great-grandfather, Afanasii Ivanovich Seridin-Sabatin.
He was an architect working (in part) for the king of Korea about 100 years
ago. I have some information about him, but I'm always looking for more.
I'm also looking for confirmation of information and details for information
that I have. Any help is appreciated.
I'd also be happy to share information that I have with intrested parties.
Thanks, George Dorian
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| Re: Afanasii Ivanovich Seridin-Sabatin [message #10716 is a reply to message #10715] |
Fri, 19 February 2010 17:40  |
Wayne Patterson
Messages: 7
Registered: December 2003
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Junior Member |
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George, you might contact Robert Neff in Seoul, who is perhaps the foremost authority on Westerners in late Choson Korea. He can be reached at robertneff103@gmail.com if he is not already a member of this list-serve.
Best,
Wayne Patterson
University of California - Berkeley
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Dorian"
To: koreanstudies@koreaweb.ws
Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 12:59:24 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: [KS] Afanasii Ivanovich Seridin-Sabatin
Hello,
I am researching my great-grandfather, Afanasii Ivanovich Seridin-Sabatin.
He was an architect working (in part) for the king of Korea about 100 years
ago. I have some information about him, but I'm always looking for more.
I'm also looking for confirmation of information and details for information
that I have. Any help is appreciated.
I'd also be happy to share information that I have with intrested parties.
Thanks, George Dorian
--
Dr. Wayne Patterson
Department of History
St. Norbert College
100 Grant Street
DePere, Wisconsin 54115-2099
Tel: 920-403-3096
Fax: 920-403-4086
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| Re: Afanasii Ivanovich Seridin-Sabatin [message #10718 is a reply to message #10715] |
Fri, 19 February 2010 20:39 |
Clark W Sorensen
Messages: 25
Registered: October 2006
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Junior Member |
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George,
The book that comes to mind is Donald Clark's "Living Dangerously in Korea" that has a whole chapter on the Russians living in Korea. I'm not sure he goes back as far as King Kojong's reign, but it would be a start. There are undoubtely Russian language sources on this. Maybe you could find information in the biography of Paul Moellendorf (I don't have the exact reference, but I've seen a title). Moellendorf was an ethnic German citizen of the Russian Empire who worked for King Kojong in the 1880s.
Clark W. Sorensen, Chair
Korean Studies Program
University of Washington
On Fri, 19 Feb 2010, George Dorian wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am researching my great-grandfather, Afanasii Ivanovich Seridin-Sabatin.
> He was an architect working (in part) for the king of Korea about 100 years
> ago. I have some information about him, but I'm always looking for more.
> I'm also looking for confirmation of information and details for information
> that I have. Any help is appreciated.
>
> I'd also be happy to share information that I have with intrested parties.
>
> Thanks, George Dorian
>
>
>
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| Re: Afanasii Ivanovich Seridin-Sabatin [message #10719 is a reply to message #10718] |
Fri, 19 February 2010 22:22 |
George Dorian
Messages: 7
Registered: February 2010
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Junior Member |
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Hello Clark,
Thank your for your reply.
I found "Living Dangerously in Korea" on Amazon. If I understand correctly,
the review of the book indicates that the book looks at Korea from 1900 to
1950. My great-grandfather was there from about 1886 to 1905. So it seems
that that book misses the mark a bit.
As for Paul Moellendorf; Google seems to have no hits - that must be a
first!
Over the last 12 months or so I've been in contact with a number of people
in Korea and Russia who are researching Afanasii, and this has renewed my
interest. I've started a Wikipedia page about him and am writing a
journal/book about my ancestors. There are a number of family stories about
my ancestors, but there are "holes" in the stories. For example we know
that Afanasii attended some kind of Naval college in St. Petersburg, but, so
far, there is no mention of him in such Russian archives.
I find that researching my ancestors to be very interesting. Like an
"Easter egg hunt". As I mentioned, I am in communication with a number of
scalars (besides surfing the web) and they each have a peace of the puzzle,
it's just a matter of collecting all the peaces. I am looking for other
individuals with an interest in my Great-grandfather so that we can
"compleat the puzzle". If you feel have a like interest in this then I
would be grateful if you could help me.
Sincerely, George
Ps, I live about 10 miles north of San Francisco.
-----Original Message-----
From: koreanstudies-bounces@koreaweb.ws
[mailto:koreanstudies-bounces@koreaweb.ws] On Behalf Of Clark W Sorensen
Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 5:39 PM
To: Korean Studies Discussion List
Subject: Re: [KS] Afanasii Ivanovich Seridin-Sabatin
George,
The book that comes to mind is Donald Clark's "Living Dangerously in Korea"
that has a whole chapter on the Russians living in Korea. I'm not sure he
goes back as far as King Kojong's reign, but it would be a start. There are
undoubtely Russian language sources on this. Maybe you could find
information in the biography of Paul Moellendorf (I don't have the exact
reference, but I've seen a title). Moellendorf was an ethnic German citizen
of the Russian Empire who worked for King Kojong in the 1880s.
Clark W. Sorensen, Chair
Korean Studies Program
University of Washington
On Fri, 19 Feb 2010, George Dorian wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am researching my great-grandfather, Afanasii Ivanovich Seridin-Sabatin.
> He was an architect working (in part) for the king of Korea about 100
years
> ago. I have some information about him, but I'm always looking for more.
> I'm also looking for confirmation of information and details for
information
> that I have. Any help is appreciated.
>
> I'd also be happy to share information that I have with intrested parties.
>
> Thanks, George Dorian
>
>
>
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| Re: Afanasii Ivanovich Seridin-Sabatin [message #10720 is a reply to message #10717] |
Sat, 20 February 2010 00:12 |
George Dorian
Messages: 7
Registered: February 2010
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Junior Member |
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Hello Brother Anthony,
Thanks you for your reply!
As for the spelling of my great-grandfather: This is a bit of a mystery. My
family records show his name spelled Afanasii. This is the way it's spelled
in Afanasii's son's, Peter's, autobiography. However, the original was
written in Russian and the translation spells it Afanasii, so maybe the
translation was wrong. In other places I've see it spelled Afanasy. Yours
is the first time I've see it spelled Afanasij. So, as I said, a bit of a
mystery. For the moment I'm using the spelling Afanasii because that's the
first I knew.
Thank you for the link to the article, however I found it some days ago.
Regarding the assassination of Queen Min: Have you seen Afanasii's
testimony of those events? Here is a link to it:
http://koreaweb.ws/ks/ksr/queenmin.txt
Over the last 12 months or so I've been in contact with a number of people
in Korea and Russia who are researching Afanasii, and this has renewed my
interest. I've started a Wikipedia page about him and am writing a
journal/book about my ancestors. There are a number of family stories about
my ancestors, but there are "holes" in the stories. For example we know
that Afanasii attended some kind of Naval college in St. Petersburg, but, so
far, there is no mention of him in such Russian archives.
I find that researching my ancestors to be very interesting. Like an
"Easter egg hunt". As I mentioned, I am in communication with a number of
scalars (besides surfing the web) and they each have a peace of the puzzle,
it's just a matter of collecting all the peaces. I am looking for other
individuals with an interest in my Great-grandfather so that we can
"compleat the puzzle". If you feel that you are category then I would be
grateful if you could help me.
Sincerely, George
Ps, I live about 10 miles north of San Francisco.
-----Original Message-----
From: koreanstudies-bounces@koreaweb.ws
[mailto:koreanstudies-bounces@koreaweb.ws] On Behalf Of Brother Anthony
Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 5:29 PM
To: Korean Studies Discussion List
Subject: Re: [KS] Afanasii Ivanovich Seridin-Sabatin
I hope that the way you spell your grandfather's name in your message
(Seridin-Sabatin) is a one-off error? I can find a lot of references to him
(116) doing a Google search with the spelling Afanasij Ivanovich Seredin
Sabatin (375 if you omit the first name which has various spellings),
including this article in the "JoongAng Daily" from last December:
http://joongangdaily.joins.com/article/view.asp?aid=2914115 which reminds
us that he was probably the only Western witness present at the murder of
the Empress Myeongseong. It would certainly be good to know if there are
longer published studies of his life and his Korean buildings. Did he leave
any diaries etc?
Brother Anthony
Sogang University, Korea
http://hompi.sogang.ac.kr/anthony/
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| Re: Afanasii Ivanovich Seridin-Sabatin [message #10731 is a reply to message #10719] |
Mon, 22 February 2010 15:38 |
Clark W Sorensen
Messages: 25
Registered: October 2006
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Junior Member |
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George,
The biography of Paul Moellendorf was written in German, and I don't know if it has been translated. The German title is "Paul Georg von Moellendorf: Ein Lebensbild" by Rosalie von Moellendort (apparently his daughter) published by Otto Harrassowitz in 1930. There are copies in major libraries in the US. The spelling of "oe" which is an alternative for an o with an umlaut over it may lead you astray on the internet. Try also Mollendorf.
Clark
On Fri, 19 Feb 2010, George Dorian wrote:
> Hello Clark,
>
> Thank your for your reply.
>
> I found "Living Dangerously in Korea" on Amazon. If I understand correctly,
> the review of the book indicates that the book looks at Korea from 1900 to
> 1950. My great-grandfather was there from about 1886 to 1905. So it seems
> that that book misses the mark a bit.
>
> As for Paul Moellendorf; Google seems to have no hits - that must be a
> first!
>
> Over the last 12 months or so I've been in contact with a number of people
> in Korea and Russia who are researching Afanasii, and this has renewed my
> interest. I've started a Wikipedia page about him and am writing a
> journal/book about my ancestors. There are a number of family stories about
> my ancestors, but there are "holes" in the stories. For example we know
> that Afanasii attended some kind of Naval college in St. Petersburg, but, so
> far, there is no mention of him in such Russian archives.
>
> I find that researching my ancestors to be very interesting. Like an
> "Easter egg hunt". As I mentioned, I am in communication with a number of
> scalars (besides surfing the web) and they each have a peace of the puzzle,
> it's just a matter of collecting all the peaces. I am looking for other
> individuals with an interest in my Great-grandfather so that we can
> "compleat the puzzle". If you feel have a like interest in this then I
> would be grateful if you could help me.
>
> Sincerely, George
>
> Ps, I live about 10 miles north of San Francisco.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: koreanstudies-bounces@koreaweb.ws
> [mailto:koreanstudies-bounces@koreaweb.ws] On Behalf Of Clark W Sorensen
> Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 5:39 PM
> To: Korean Studies Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [KS] Afanasii Ivanovich Seridin-Sabatin
>
> George,
>
> The book that comes to mind is Donald Clark's "Living Dangerously in Korea"
> that has a whole chapter on the Russians living in Korea. I'm not sure he
> goes back as far as King Kojong's reign, but it would be a start. There are
> undoubtely Russian language sources on this. Maybe you could find
> information in the biography of Paul Moellendorf (I don't have the exact
> reference, but I've seen a title). Moellendorf was an ethnic German citizen
> of the Russian Empire who worked for King Kojong in the 1880s.
>
> Clark W. Sorensen, Chair
> Korean Studies Program
> University of Washington
>
> On Fri, 19 Feb 2010, George Dorian wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I am researching my great-grandfather, Afanasii Ivanovich Seridin-Sabatin.
>> He was an architect working (in part) for the king of Korea about 100
> years
>> ago. I have some information about him, but I'm always looking for more.
>> I'm also looking for confirmation of information and details for
> information
>> that I have. Any help is appreciated.
>>
>> I'd also be happy to share information that I have with intrested parties.
>>
>> Thanks, George Dorian
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
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| Re: William E. Skillend [message #10732 is a reply to message #10731] |
Mon, 22 February 2010 16:56 |
Walraven, B.C.A.
Messages: 44
Registered: October 2000
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Member |
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We are saddened by the news we received from his son David that on the 21th of February, William E. Skillend, the first Korean Studies professor of the School of Oriental and African Studies in London and a pioneer of Korean Studies in Europe, has after an illness passed away peacefully at the age of 83. He was the driving force behind the creation of the Association for Korean Studies in Europe (AKSE), which was constituted in 1977, and held its first conference in London. From 1982 to 1984 he was AKSE President. This was only one of the ways his activities benefited others. A conscientious and painstaking scholar he went to great lengths, for instance, to compile an annotated bibliography of all the pre-modern works of fiction he could trace in libraries all over the world. The result, his book Kodae sosŏl, offered a great quantity of essential information for other scholars and in Korea was judged so useful that it merited a pirated edition.
He was one of the founding members who made of AKSE not just an academic association but also a circle of friends. The book AKSE dedicated to him on his 60th birthday (Twenty Papers on Korean Studies Offered to Professor W.E. Skillend) was testimony to the love and respect he inspired among his colleagues from many countries. Younger scholars who take the present state of Korean Studies for granted, will better understand how significant the contribution of Bill Skillend has been in establishing the discipline from scratch when they read the amusing piece he himself wrote about his student days in Cambridge, where he enrolled as a student of Japanese, but also laid the foundation for his career as a much loved and appreciated teacher of Korean and Korean literature: http://www.ames.cam.ac.uk/deas/japanese/fifty_years.pdf
He will be remembered these days in many places with gratitude and affection.
Boudewijn Walraven
AKSE President
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| Re: Afanasii Ivanovich Seridin-Sabatin [message #10733 is a reply to message #10731] |
Mon, 22 February 2010 17:53 |
Kirk Larsen
Messages: 29
Registered: August 1998
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Junior Member |
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A Korean-language translation has been done: Sin, Pok-kyông and Kim
Un-kyông, eds. *Moellendorup'u Munsô*. Seoul: Pyôngminsa, 1987. This
includes not only the biography but some other writings/correspondence of
Moellendorf.
If memory serves, the "von" was certainly claimed by Moellendorf, but
perhaps undeservedly (if one adheres to prevailing standards of aristocracy
of the day).
Cheers,
Kirk Larsen
On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 1:38 PM, Clark W Sorensen
wrote:
> George,
>
> The biography of Paul Moellendorf was written in German, and I don't know
> if it has been translated. The German title is "Paul Georg von Moellendorf:
> Ein Lebensbild" by Rosalie von Moellendort (apparently his daughter)
> published by Otto Harrassowitz in 1930. There are copies in major libraries
> in the US. The spelling of "oe" which is an alternative for an o with an
> umlaut over it may lead you astray on the internet. Try also Mollendorf.
>
> Clark
>
> On Fri, 19 Feb 2010, George Dorian wrote:
>
> Hello Clark,
>>
>> Thank your for your reply.
>>
>> I found "Living Dangerously in Korea" on Amazon. If I understand
>> correctly,
>> the review of the book indicates that the book looks at Korea from 1900 to
>> 1950. My great-grandfather was there from about 1886 to 1905. So it
>> seems
>> that that book misses the mark a bit.
>>
>> As for Paul Moellendorf; Google seems to have no hits - that must be a
>> first!
>>
>> Over the last 12 months or so I've been in contact with a number of people
>> in Korea and Russia who are researching Afanasii, and this has renewed my
>> interest. I've started a Wikipedia page about him and am writing a
>> journal/book about my ancestors. There are a number of family stories
>> about
>> my ancestors, but there are "holes" in the stories. For example we know
>> that Afanasii attended some kind of Naval college in St. Petersburg, but,
>> so
>> far, there is no mention of him in such Russian archives.
>>
>> I find that researching my ancestors to be very interesting. Like an
>> "Easter egg hunt". As I mentioned, I am in communication with a number
>> of
>> scalars (besides surfing the web) and they each have a peace of the
>> puzzle,
>> it's just a matter of collecting all the peaces. I am looking for other
>> individuals with an interest in my Great-grandfather so that we can
>> "compleat the puzzle". If you feel have a like interest in this then I
>> would be grateful if you could help me.
>>
>> Sincerely, George
>>
>> Ps, I live about 10 miles north of San Francisco.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: koreanstudies-bounces@koreaweb.ws
>> [mailto:koreanstudies-bounces@koreaweb.ws] On Behalf Of Clark W Sorensen
>> Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 5:39 PM
>> To: Korean Studies Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: [KS] Afanasii Ivanovich Seridin-Sabatin
>>
>> George,
>>
>> The book that comes to mind is Donald Clark's "Living Dangerously in
>> Korea"
>> that has a whole chapter on the Russians living in Korea. I'm not sure he
>> goes back as far as King Kojong's reign, but it would be a start. There
>> are
>> undoubtely Russian language sources on this. Maybe you could find
>> information in the biography of Paul Moellendorf (I don't have the exact
>> reference, but I've seen a title). Moellendorf was an ethnic German
>> citizen
>> of the Russian Empire who worked for King Kojong in the 1880s.
>>
>> Clark W. Sorensen, Chair
>> Korean Studies Program
>> University of Washington
>>
>> On Fri, 19 Feb 2010, George Dorian wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I am researching my great-grandfather, Afanasii Ivanovich
>>> Seridin-Sabatin.
>>> He was an architect working (in part) for the king of Korea about 100
>>>
>> years
>>
>>> ago. I have some information about him, but I'm always looking for more.
>>> I'm also looking for confirmation of information and details for
>>>
>> information
>>
>>> that I have. Any help is appreciated.
>>>
>>> I'd also be happy to share information that I have with intrested
>>> parties.
>>>
>>> Thanks, George Dorian
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
Kirk W. Larsen
Department of History
2151 JFSB
BYU
Provo, UT 84602-6707
(801) 422-3445
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| Re: Afanasii Ivanovich Seridin-Sabatin [message #10734 is a reply to message #10733] |
Mon, 22 February 2010 19:07 |
Frank_Hoffmann
Messages: 245
Registered: May 2013
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Senior Member
Administrator |
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Hi:
Just for the record, a few small comments (I know
there are others here on the list who know far
more about this topic, both Moellendorff and
Seredin-Sabatin).
Moellendorff's full and correct name was: Paul
Georg von Moellendorff (1848-1901) -- with two at
the end -- all good Germans have family names
with at least two double consonants :)
It is also correct that "oe" is an alternative
for an o-umlaut. But in case of Moellendorff, and
most native German Asia specialist got that
'wrong' as well, this family, throughout the 19th
century, always spelled their family name as "von
Moellendorff" (thus the 1930 book title, with
"oe" and not "ö," and the Prussian diplomatic
documents of the time indicate the same,
according to Prof. Ingeborg Göthel who worked
with them in the 1980s). [Then again, how family
names are written in Europe is a very fluid and
constantly changing thing.] Also, Rosalie von
Moellendorff, the author of his biography -- that
was his wife, not his daughter.
The biography's correct title is: P.G. von
Moellendorff: Ein Lebensbild (Leipzig: Otto
Harrassowitz, 1930)
Original cover: http://openlibrary.org/b/OL20421284M/P.G._von_Moellendorff
There are several books and conference volumes
about him, also in Korean, and plenty of articles
and some books in German (about his role in
Korea), e.g. by Walter Leifer (1988) or Eun-Jeung
Lee (2008). Professor Yur-bok Lee also published
a scholarly biography in English (West Goes East,
1988), a book that is widely available.
Kirk Larsen wrote:
>If memory serves, the "von" was certainly
>claimed by Moellendorf, but perhaps undeservedly
>(if one adheres to prevailing standards of
>aristocracy of the day).
No, that is certainly not so, Kirk. (You must mix that up with me.)
Best,
Frank Hoffmann
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| Re: William E. Skillend [message #10741 is a reply to message #10732] |
Tue, 23 February 2010 11:17 |
johnfrankl
Messages: 11
Registered: August 2008
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Junior Member |
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In addition to all his work in premodern fiction, his is still the only English translation of Yi Injik's "Tears of Blood." Although it is abridged, it is still extremely useful (in my classes at least). I am sorry I never had the chance to meet him, but I remain in his gratitude.
John Frankl
--- On Mon, 2/22/10, Walraven, B.C.A. wrote:
From: Walraven, B.C.A.
Subject: Re: [KS] William E. Skillend
To: "Korean Studies Discussion List"
Date: Monday, February 22, 2010, 1:56 PM
We are saddened by the news we received from his son David that on the 21th of February, William E. Skillend, the first Korean Studies professor of the School of Oriental and African Studies in London and a pioneer of Korean Studies in Europe, has after an illness passed away peacefully at the age of 83. He was the driving force behind the creation of the Association for Korean Studies in Europe (AKSE), which was constituted in 1977, and held its first conference in London. From 1982 to 1984 he was AKSE President. This was only one of the ways his activities benefited others. A conscientious and painstaking scholar he went to great lengths, for instance, to compile an annotated bibliography of all the pre-modern works of fiction he could trace in libraries all over the world. The result, his book Kodae sosŏl, offered a great quantity of essential information for other scholars and in Korea was judged so useful that it merited a pirated edition.
He was one of the founding members who made of AKSE not just an academic association but also a circle of friends. The book AKSE dedicated to him on his 60th birthday (Twenty Papers on Korean Studies Offered to Professor W.E. Skillend) was testimony to the love and respect he inspired among his colleagues from many countries. Younger scholars who take the present state of Korean Studies for granted, will better understand how significant the contribution of Bill Skillend has been in establishing the discipline from scratch when they read the amusing piece he himself wrote about his student days in Cambridge, where he enrolled as a student of Japanese, but also laid the foundation for his career as a much loved and appreciated teacher of Korean and Korean literature: http://www.ames.cam.ac.uk/deas/japanese/fifty_years.pdf
He will be remembered these days in many places with gratitude and affection.
Boudewijn Walraven
AKSE President
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